tv Taiwan Outlook PBS September 26, 2013 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT
♪ >> the central african republic could be the next mali. coming up, our crew in that country, stumbling upon the aftermath of a massacre in the bush. sadly, but one anecdote that highlights the lawless unfolding on part of the confident -- the continent. a loose coalition of militias seems stuck on looting rather than nationbuilding five months after the overthrow of a president whose supporters are
engaging in ethnically charged revenge attacks. we see that report and ask, whose job is it to step in and stop the spiral? that is coming up right after the news. let us say hello. >> these are the headlines. no nation should sit -- should possess nuclear weapons, said iran's president, as tehran and washington year up for the highest level talks in more than 30 years. judges in the hague uphold charles taylor's 50 year sentence for war crimes. the former liberian president denies helping rebels in sierra leone. interpol issues an arrest warrant for britain's samantha, in connection with suspected terrorist offenses in 2011, linked to kenya's four-day siege. hassan rouhani has made a speech
before the u.n. on day three of the assembly. the president said no nation should possess nuclear weapons. he also called on israel to admit it has a nuclear bomb. the report. >> the first world leader to take to the podium at a u.n. nuclear disarmament conference in new york this thursday, hassan ronny -- rouhani put the spotlight on israel. >> almost four decades of international effort to establish a nuclear weapons free zone in the middle east has regrettably failed. urgent practical steps toward the establishment of such a zone are necessary. israel, the only non-party to the nonproliferation treaty in this region, should join without further delay.
>> israel, the main culprit, rouhani claims. he said a deal on his country's controversy it was possible within months. >> the only way is to introduce a timeline. the shorter it is, the more beneficial for everyone. if it is six months, that is still good. it is a question of months, not years. >> he assured the general assembly that iran's nuclear ambitions are peaceful. the obama administration praises the positive rhetoric, but remains cautious. >> actions are what matter. >> the first major test of political will will come later this thursday, with a meeting with the u.s. secretary of state and counterparts from the 4 other permanent members of the security council, as well as germany. he insists iran wants a deal in the shortest span of time.
my mood abbas is set to address the general assembly later. israelis and palestinians are talking again, but there does not appear to be much optimism in the palestinian territories. >> after meeting on the sidelines of the u.n., palestinian negotiators are feeling positive. they are promising to intensify restarted peace talks. residents of gaza know what they want out of the negotiations. >> a palestinian state, with jerusalem as its capital, not giving up on the return of refugees, and determining our future. this is what we ask of the president. >> abbas last made a push for full statement two years ago, at that floundered after the u.s. promised to veto the bid at the observer council. he hopes to build on his victory, but if the mood is
upbeat, skepticism reigns on the streets of the west bank. >> abbas is doing what he can, but all the negotiations are futile. in the past 20 years, what have they achieved? israeli jeeps do what they like, without anyone saying a thing. >> the same sentiment in gaza city. >> we are facing an enemy who knows that talks a palestinians and arabs, and nothing more. >> the u.s. secretary of state says this time, the goal of the talks is to reach a definitive conclusion, not another interim agreement. almost two weeks after the u.s. and russia struck a deal on the distraction of serious chemical stockpiles, diplomats say that agreement has been reached on a u.n. resolution on the issue. the main point of contention has been whether to include an enforcement provision under chapter seven of the u.n. charter.
it now appears there will be a reference to chapter seven in the final document. last year, he became the first former head of state convicted by an international war crimes court since world war ii. judges in the hague have rejected charles taylor's appeal against a 50 year sentence for war crimes. the former liberian president will serve it in a foreign country, possibly the u.k. >> a guilty verdict and 50 year sentence upheld. charles taylor lost his appeal against last year's conviction before the u.n. backed special court for sierra leone at the hague. >> this affirms the sentence of 50 years in prison. orders shall be enforced immediately. >> the six judge panel rejected
claims that accusations were based on uncorroborated hearsay evidence, and turned on prosecution requests for an increase in jail time. in april 2012, taylor was found guilty of 11 counts of war crimes and crimes against humanity, the first head of state to be convicted by an international court since the second world war. judges said the former african strongman aided and abetted rebel groups during a bloody civil war in neighboring sierra leone, from 1991 through 2002. those rebels made hacking off limbs their gruesome trademark. 150,000 people were killed in the fighting. in return, the library and received diamonds mined by slave laborers, plus political influence in the west african region. since his arrest in 2006, 65- year-old taylor has maintained his innocence. he is expected to be transferred to a foreign jail.
the u.k., sweden, and rwanda are all possible destinations. >> at kenya's request, interpol has issued a wanted person's notice for britain's samantha left weight -- samantha, known as the white widow, since her husband was one of seven suicide bombers who attacked london in 2000 i've. she is wanted under an alleged plot to bomb holiday resorts in kenya. there has been speculation she might have been involved in the attack on a shopping center. we cross to our correspondent in london. tell us more about her. how did she get into this position? >> we are not sure about the exact path. but let me have a stab. she is 29 years old. she is officially called samantha lewthwaite, but during
the two years on the run she is said to be traveling with a fake passport, a south african passport, under an alias, natalie webb. she is the mother of four, the widow of one of four suicide bombers in july 2 thousand five. her husband helped killed 52 people in those bloody and deadly terrorist attacks on london. what is interesting is that she grew up in -- she is a home counties girl. she grew up in leafy buckinghamshire, outside london. her parents divorced when she was 11, and she befriended or was befriended by the next-door neighbors, a muslim family who were very good to her. she converted to islam around 15, 16, and started wearing the veil. she turned to islamist forums on the internet in about 2002, and met the man who was to become
her husband, jermaine lindsay, the suicide bomber. after the deadly london attacks, she criticized, publicly, her husband, and said he had been indoctrinated by what she called a radical mosque. she thought this was very bad. >> how worried are the british authorities about something similar to nairobi's nightmare happening back home? >> they are worried. they are not just worried after these deadly nairobi attacks that seem to, if we are to believe intelligence services including the british ones, was long in the planning. they have been worried ever since the mumbai attacks some years ago. there is no realistic, for the moment, we think, plot to do this here in britain, by terrorists. but of course the intelligence services are always tracking down various jihadists, trying
to stop them from coming back into the country or leaving the country. as has been said for many years, you cannot have a policeman in a democracy behind every single individual. and it only takes one attempt that works, basically, for the terrorists to get him and to do that. -- get in and do that. there is no plan to have increased security in shopping malls and the united kingdom. >> thank you very much indeed for that. that is it from the newsroom for now. it is time to cross to françois for the debate. >> power vacuums bring out the worst in human nature. they attract bullies and profiteers. in the central african republic, the civil war, mostly a war against civilians. journalists stumbled on a
massacre north of the capital, the heart of the continent, the rampage of a loose coalition of militias. many fighters hail from neighboring sudan and chad. there have been attacks against local trailers. -- traders. for most victims, the only link to the militias is their muslim faith. we will show you that report in a moment. this is five months after the toppling of the president. the capital has its own looting to deal with. the central african republic, this week in the united nations in new york, on the agenda. >> i now want to sound the alarm, like i did for mali last year. this alarm is for the central african republic, a small country ravaged by war and cruise -- and coups for too many years. >> france wants the security
council to finance a beefed-up mandate for african peacekeepers, with a sometimes checkered past. whose job is it to sort it out? today, we are looking at the chaos in the central african republic. with us, boris heger, whose report we will see in the moment. thank you for being with us today. we welcome back julie owono of internet without borders will stop -- orders. you want to get information passed along among cyber activists at the grassroots level in the centralized can -- central african republic. demand -- dominique trinh conned -- dominique trinquand, a consultant on peacekeeping operations. you can join us on twitter.
without further review, boris heger went to "the boston globe." the story they filed before reporters, a report. >> on the edge of an abandonedto traveling a dangerous road. there's are the only cars to be seen. they are accompanied by peacekeeping soldiers from the multinational force of central africa. the convoy is heading for a town to the northwest of the central african republic, a community surrounded by militias, with no telephones. it is virtually cut off from the outside world. after three hours on the road, the aid workers reach the first signs of conflict, abandoned homes and empty villages. "i think they have fled. they are in the bush." evidence shows that people left in a hurry. doors have been left open,
cooking still on the hog. the shocking -- shopping lies strewn over the road. >> people fled when they heard the noise of the vehicles. they left their shopping all along the road. >> it is not the only shock of the day. a few kilometers away, we came across a ransacked village. it is smoking ruins, abandoned by the inhabitants. "you can see the buildings are still burning. it means it was not long ago that the fire was started. perhaps two hours ago." 2 children suddenly emerge from the bush.
scouts from the rest of the village. >> we live in the village. people came here. they killed my father down there. we ran into the bush over there with our uncle. >> almost as soon as they arrived, they are gone, to tell others about the u.n. aid workers. 2 women appear to show the convoy what lies between the burn down houses. -- burned down houses. it is a body. then, another. and a third in front of the hot. >> they were killed with machetes. >> more villagers emerge from
the bush. one young man offers to act as a guide. the military escorts are on full alert. in the darkness, danger can come from any direction. further down the trail, we discover 2 more bodies. u.n. workers make sure to take photos of the scene, evidence and documentation for future investigation. night falls, and the streets fill with people searching for their loved ones. many are wounded. others are overwhelmed by grief as the scale of the tragedy dawns on them.
>> the african soldiers escorting the u.n. offer to take charge of the survivors. the soldiers promised to take the women and children on the truck to safety, in a town about 50 kilometers away. >> i am staying, because my children are still over there. i do not want to come with you. >> we are going to save as many as we can. >> the convoy moves off, leaving many villagers behind, and at least six bodies. the people here are muslims from an ethnic group that was directly targeted. the former president was ousted by ake who last march in the capital. -- by a coup last march in the
capital. the rulers are a coalition of warlords. many are thought to have come from chad or saddam. they recruited among the country's muslims, who make up only 50% of the population. for many christians, it was a difficult pill to swallow. in the countryside, some christian farmers took up arms. their group called itself the anti-[indiscernible] the u.n. convoy ends up crossing their path. young fighters, many adorned with trophies, march alongside mercenaries close to the former president. >> we are his rebels. this is the central african republic. it is not acceptable. >> the silica -- seleca have
come. they are mostly chadian. they want to exploit their dominance on central african territory. thus christians -- where are we going to go? >> these militia are using ambushes to step up the pressure on the seneca troops. they have directly targeted the muslim population, who they accuse of collaboration. they are main suspects in the massacre discovered by the convoy. different ethnic and religious communities have always lived side by side peacefully in the central african republic, but the events of the past few weeks have drastically change things in the region. our team is the first to enter this large town. since the seleca took control, the streets are almost deserted. the soldiers celebrated victory by loosing -- by looting houses
and shops. this bank was one of the first to open outside the capital. today, all that is left is its walls. for these old townsfolk, there is nothing left to do now but talk amongst themselves about what has happened. they feel powerless and angry at the troops now occupying their town. >> farmers do not want aircastle limited. what are we going to cultivate with after that? that is the crux of the problem. it is not right. someone who does not even speak your dialect and loots your things -- what do you think about that? >> there has been looting and extrajudicial killings. one of the elders takes us to see the extent of the violence. it is almost nightfall, so he is tense. >> that is the first tomb.
it is of a woman, age 76, who was accused of witchcraft. she was eaten by the military, and i buried her there. -- she was beaten by the military, and i buried her there. >> some meters away, there is a second grade. -- grave. are there many graves like this that we see in the town? >> there are many near here, and five or 10 kilometers away. >> how many do you think there are? >> hundreds and hundreds. even more than that. >> many have fled their homes. in the search for safety, they found refuge here, at the church. the man in a white cassock is
the head vicar. the tragedy of the last few days has left him overwhelmed. >> we started welcoming the displaced on sunday. by evening, we had over 2000. as of today, we are nearing 6000. >> he has received over 6000 people in five days. he has fed them, accommodated them, and treated them. the situation is truly catastrophic. this is our woodshed, which returned into a dormitory, if you can call it that. >> food is scarce. with only two latrines and one cap, sanitary conditions are extremely poor. >> i have never seen anything like this. there have been mutinies, rebellions. what is happening now is worse
than anything else. things have changed, which is why the violence is continuing. they got rid of the president, saying he did not want -- they did not want him anymore. he is gone. if the people in peace. do you think these children are involved in politics? these mothers -- do they do politics? do these children have guns? they should indiscriminately. they shoot anything or anything that moves. what do you expect us to do? >> the conflict has cut the town into. the christians stick to the church. meanwhile, across town, the muslims stay near the entrance. they have found refuge at the
headquarters of the seleca. >> we walked all night. all night long. we took breaks, then started again. we do not have any strength yet all stop -- yet. >> the african troops are the only ones protecting the population. they came here to escort the u.n. convoy. but faced with such a desperate situation, they received orders to stay in the town. >> we are not necessarily here for combat. the fight here is to give hope to the people, to reassure them, because they are really afraid. >> the soldiers are there to keep the peace. soon, they are put to the test.
in the middle of the night, there is another class. a pickup truck headed for the command post has fallen into an ambush. several fighters are seriously wounded and had to be evacuated to the hospital, like this child soldier. a muslim civilian turns out to be one of the towns most successful traders. -- town's most successful traders. by morning, the news has spread, and friends in the muslim community are furious. they are threatening to take their machetes and attack the christians in their church sanctuary, but they're in mom persuades them they must first talk things over -- but their imam persuades them they must first talk things over. the head vicar is invited to
speak for his congregation. >> there is no war between you and us. him and me, we understand each other when necessary. when something happens, we talk to each other. if we were at war, we would understand why we are doing it, but that is not the case. there are no problems. you are my neighbor. so where is the problem? >> emotions are calm. this time, a few words are all that is needed to avoid a bloodbath. but whether these joint prayers will be enough to bring lasting peace between the communities is far from clear. the inhabitants have become trapped in an unending cycle of conflict. the sporadic and frequent violence means nobody can predict the outcome. what is clear is, the civilians
have become the main victims of the central african tragedy. >> we will get the reaction of all of our panelists after the break. before we go to that break, boris heger -- how touch and go was it at the end of the report? we see the vicar and the imam coming to calm things down. how close were things to do generating? >> i think they were very close. the people we see sitting in the room were actually walking toward the church place with maturities -- with machetes to attack them. that was very emotive. >> to say in the report at one point, these are communities that have lived side-by-side therefore. as the vicar had said. why is it suddenly getting to
this point now? >> a good question. i spoke to the father of the wounded man we saw sitting next to the church. he told me he had given soap at the birth of some of the men, who he recognized. i think theulation did suffer a lot from the occupation. they get to a point where they are so fed up, something had to happen. this is enhanced by the ex- president's supporters, who somehow take advantage of the situation. >> political situations in the capital. regional considerations. all of that fueling local rivalries. when we come back, we will get reaction from the rest of our panel. >> will come back.
it is time for the stories we have been following for you at the top of the hour. we are watching the united nations in new york, where iran's foreign minister and the u.s. secretary of state are due to set in on a meeting about iran's nuclear ambitions. iran's president, hassan wrote connie -- rouhani, saying no nation should the zest nuclear weapons. the appeal of charles taylor shot down, the liberian president, in the hague, to serve 50 years after helping rebels in sierra leone. the search is on for samantha lewthwaite, the so-called white widow. she has been linked at times to the siege that unfolded in nairobi at the shopping mall. we will have those stories and much more at the top of the
hour, right here. welcome back, or welcome, if you are just joining us. this is the debate. at the united nations, the french president warning the central african republic could be the next mali. we sought a report co-authored by journalist boris heger, who has just been 300 kilometers north of the central african republic capital, where you were just -- how long after the scene were you, by the way, of that first massacre we saw in the report? >> two or three hours. we discovered it at the same time as the villagers themselves. they fled to the bush. most of them had no idea what had happened. >> it was very fresh when you stumbled upon it. also with us, welcome back, julie owono, general dominique
trinquand, and we are pleased to welcome from cape town, south africa ian van vuuren, of lyrical analysis south africa. look into the debate. julie owono, your reaction, when you saw that report. >> as a human being, it is, of coarse, unbearable to see what other human beings are going through, this situation. things to these images, we have a glimpse of the crisis and the disparities faced by citizens in the central african republic. the problem is, what are the solutions to that? we have gotten to such a point that we still are wondering what could be the solutions to the crisis, and it is even more worrying, as it is taking a religious turn, as we have seen in the images, with muslims and
christians attacking each other for political reasons, mainly. >> how much of it would you say is a religious turn, and how much is ethnic? it is always complicated figuring that out. in the west, we see muslims versus christians. it is not that simple, is it? >> we saw a muslim with a christian mother. nothing is black. nothing is white. i was in bangui two months ago. everyone i spoke too made a point to say it was not a religious conflict. now, it is becoming so. >> it is becoming so. to set it in context, i guess we have to look at a map. we heard the vicar say in that report that the history of the central african republic was regularly punctuated by battles, with past french intervention.
but the situation is particularly dire. you see refugees pouring into neighboring countries, areas that are more or less uner the control of the seleca alliance of militias. those loyal to the ousted president are making their presence felt. why is it worse this time? it has been five months since the president was ousted. there is no nationbuilding at all. >> it is worse, probably because you have people coming from the north. there is a security vacuum. you have no central african army able to defend the people. >> was that the case before?
>> before, you had very quickly french intervention inside the city, which usually calm the situation. in 1997, the french army was there. at the time, one thousand 200 soldiers. we were able to calm the situation. you see we have an african force. last june, it was decided that this force would be 3500. currently, it is 1200, a very small party for a big country. the african army have a big difficulty to deploy soldiers abroad. you have seen the contingents in strange uniforms, strange equipment. they have to build an army able to deploy elsewhere. that is probably why, during the summits of the african union, they decided to create a rapid
reaction force. but it is not yet there. that is why there is this discussion currently in new york , monday, from the u.n., to provide money and logistics to this force. >> we saw in the report the same shocked that julie was talking about, on the part of those peacekeepers, sort of improvising what their role was. we saw that when they are going through the bush, it is a dangerous situation. african peacekeepers often get bad press because of cases in the past, and lots of conflicts, where there is corruption, where there is abuses. how do you -- is it possible to have a solid african peacekeeping force in a place like the central african republic? >> it is possible. it will take time. it is not ready now. you must be careful, because there were two sets of people.
the u.n., their aim was to investigate the crime. that is it. the other was providing escort for the people who were investigating. >> correct me if i am wrong. those were a central african state force that has recently been converted into an african union force. >> exactly. currently, the discussion in new york is to provide logistics finance hrough this african force. but my guess is that, midterm, it will be a u.n. force. the u.n. is the only one able to provide money. >> and the french, between 350 and 450, mostly stationed at the airport. why aren't they intervening? >> they are at the airport, which is the door for the european internationals staying in bangui. that is probably their first aim. it is very difficult to intervene in the villages.
it is far away. >> 300 kilometers. >> i do not know how long it takes to travel 300 kilometers. it takes a long time on this type of tracks. you have to have people everywhere. when we are using our forces, we need powerful forces to intervene. we cannot be everywhere at the same time. >> ian van vuuren, do you agree with the general that the difference between this and past rebellions is that this time the french are not there to step in? >> well, i would not say it is the french who are the culprits here. it is just a difficult situation in a conflict that is really based on lawlessness and internal ethnic tension, almost. like the general said, it is
really difficult to counter such a type of conflict situation. >> why do think it is worse this time than in the past? >> i think it is just, like, a case of civil unrest, you know? after march, the situation has actually deteriorated all stop -- deteriorated. the whole nation has been kind of, really, getting really -- >> boris heger, at one point in the report, you have one of the pro- bozize militia saying that those coming and are mostly chadians.
is that true? at one point he says, listen, these militia men, theseseleca, -- these seleca, are mostly foreigners. is that what you witnessed? >> everyone agrees they come from chad and sudan, mostly. that partially explains the reason for the amplitude. they are in a territory which is not theirs. they do not have accounts to render to anyone. that could explain behaviors that go beyond what we saw in the past, because they do not belong to the place. >> right now, there are supposed to be 2000 african peacekeepers in the central african republic. they are reporting, you were saying, 1200, general. according to the french news agency, 1300 are there right
now. they come from congo, cameroon, gabon, and chad. there are chadians peacekeepers, but also chadians among the rebels. how does chad's president feel about this? >> this is a major problem. if we look back at history, we should sometimes look back at history. the central african republic is on the border of chad. there always have been problems from people from the north coming to the south, with slavery and all this side of things. currently, having people who are making a coup in chad, and a force coming from chad as a peacekeeping, it is a problem, because the influence is -- >> if you were the president of the african union, and with the head of the peacekeepers, would you politely ask the chadians to
not be part of the peacekeeping operation? >> that was a tradition in u.s. peacekeeping forces. usually, you never have people coming from the border. but we have a problem currently to find troops to be part of peacekeeping, and being able to speak the language, to understand the people. this is a bit of a mixup and a difficulty, certainly. >> julie owono, what do you think? do you feel the pain of the people trying to get to 3600 peacekeepers? it is a huge territory, and they are not getting their. >> it was announced in april. in september, there are 13,000 peacekeepers. unfortunately, the central african republic is a failure, another failure of the african union. we have to recognize it will stop and another failure of the international community.
the central african republic has always been used to, unfortunately, this type of instability. instability was known by international counterparts. the problem is, today, we are facing a coalition of various groups, some of them coming from former rebels who have gone back to chad and gotten along with the government, such as one of the leaders of one of the groups of the seleka. these seleka men are armed and unpaid. what do you do when you are a soldier with a weapon, facing farmers or peasants, or people in the city? you lived. it is horrible to say, but it is a normal cycle in a conflict situation. it is not a surprise. my opinion on the issue of who
would save peace in the central african republic is that, in reality, the government is not capable of handling such crisis. it does not have money. it is asking for money from the eeo and u.n. at the general assembly. on the other hand, the au is also incapable at the moment, asking for logistics to the u.n. , and money as well, to back up deployment of forces. at the same time, the u.n. experience in conflict zones in africa is not always been successful. i am thinking of the drc, which has been going through a longtime conflict, where one of the biggest u.n. missions is deployed at the moment, a peace building mission. last year, several international analysis groups, such as international crisis group,
talked about the failure for unesco. probably here, the problem is more internal. these men are the problem, jeopardizing other possibilities to solve the problems of the administration and a state that is crumbling, the problem of public servants who have not been paid for a month now. these men are the issue. what can they do? they should not be soldiers anymore. they should not have weapons anymore. the government, foreign forces, and four in countries involved -- foreign countries involved have responsibilities toward the citizens and the region. >> you are saying because of u.n. failures to stop both sides from getting at each other in neighboring congo, most notably, we have to think of how to sit -- how to proceed. who should be in charge of restoring law and order? who's job is it?
-- whose job is it? is it france? is it the u.n.? is it the african union? >> in public african opinion, a foreign intervention is not always welcome. we have to recognize this. we have seen that in mali. the reactions were not positive. the same in the ivory coast. >> not so positive? there was a hero's welcome in mali. >> if you are interested in conversations from the citizens, on a tool used by citizens which is the internet, you would recognize that the reactions were not one hundred percent positive. i am not saying those in mali were not welcoming, because of course they have been going through ordeals at the time of the islamist president of the country. >> but there is a wariness of
bringing back a former colonial power. >> you have to admit there is a fear of that. as we are talking about a country which is rising, it is interesting to note whether they are capable of having a continental organization such as a au, which fulfills the aim of peace with sufficient funds. this comes with another issue, which is african countries contributing to the african union. it is a bit of a cycle. for me, that is the main problem. >> boris heger, what were people telling you when it came to this issue when you were there? what did they want to see happen? did they want to see the french, the u.n., the african union? >> they just want to be able to keep going with this business. i do not think it matters. >> to get rid of all the militia, the seleka on one hand, the pro-bozizie's on the other
-- >> they just want peace. we had been cohabiting. why does it continue? the french have a long history in the region. of course, that might not always be 100%. >> do not get me wrong. i do not think it is the role of france to intervene. no one is doing that. i know the u.n. is not perfect, but it is better than nothing. certainly, after the operation in mali, the african unit summit realized that it was wrong. the french were obliged to intervene because africa was not able to do it. they decided to build a force. that it will take time. currently, the discussion in new york is, there is a crisis.
who will deal that -- deal with that? the african union is unable. finance is not there. in the long term, the u.n., and in the longer term, the african union when the african union will be ready. >> i want your reaction to what the central african republic's prime minister said in new york on wednesday. he is hopeful of seeing peacekeepers, but not just any peacekeepers. take a listen. >> central african republic troops are already hard at work. i think with the arrival of additional troops from chad, cameroon, and gambon, the number of act of -- active-duty soldiers will pass 2500. france can also bring logistical support to the international mission, but it is also probable that french troops will be able to reinforce those already on the ground.
>> he is putting the past aside. he would like to see the french there. we know there are discussions. the french newspaper "le monde" reports discussions about beefing up the presents to over 1200 french troops being sent there. >> we must be careful, after what has happened in mali, and the current discussion on the budget for defense in france. i do not believe france will be able very long, in the long term, to run such an operation. i guess that the only way -- i understand. you have people speaking french, knowing the people. it is easier. but it is very difficult. you have a number of african countries speaking french must be able to do that, and not only the french. >> we have on twitter a reaction. the central african republic
needs military, technical, and financial support to ensure security, conduct overdue reforms, and restore the state. a speech at the u.n. general assembly on tuesday, the french president calling on the security council to be the one to initiate matters. you are saying the french are cash-strapped. they cannot send peacekeepers everywhere. who is going to pay for all this? >> that is why it is at the u.n. currently, the mechanism to pay a peacekeeping operation exists only in the u.n. there is a budget for that the problem is, to decide to launch a peacekeeping operation, 27% of this budget will be paid by the u.s. when we launched the operation in 2004, it took two years to have a peacekeeping mission in the ivory coast. at the same time, you had 50,000 troops in liberia, because the
check was signed by the u.s. we have to convince people that there is a real crisis, and we must intervene now, because the crisis will be bigger and bigger. the problem of religion will be increasing. it is not when people are close together. they can talk to each other. but the problem will be bigger and bigger. you need to stop the fighting now. after, the spiral will be terrible. >> the spiral will be terrible. we know that south africa had forces in the south african republic. those forces were pulled out. reports say there was a lot more during the fighting back in april. will south africa stay out of it for good?
>> there is an election coming up. there are labor related issues. if the u.n. pull their forces out, it might have the same effect. with the u.n. peacekeeping forces there, i think they will probably stay out for now. >> they are going to stay well clear of it, is what you are saying. julie owono, you were mentioning there are a lot of people in africa who are wary of french imperialism.
you heard the prime minister saying, please, france, help us more. you heard the general saying, who is going to pay for all this? how do you cite it out? who is going to step in? i know somebody has to step in sooner rather than later. >> once again, one of the solutions, one of the ways to start solving the issue, is probably disarming the rebels, an appropriate program funded by the u.n., even. the bubbly, the international community, as it is called, should now think of how to stop internal issues first, before sending international deployments. historically, we have seen that as long as you do not solve the situation with internal issues, probably international -- >> it is no longer an internal issue, if you have chadian and
sudanese millicent min. >> it is true. -- militia men. >> right now, the conflict is in the central african republic. it is located in a country specifically designated. at the same time, it is a regional issue. if the issue is not solved at the moment, cameron is also addressed. -- cameroon, the borders are porous. some enemies are talking about islamists with songs of turbulence and conflict to deploy. >> attracted again by a power vacuum. >> exactly. >> we will leave you with another reaction on twitter. africans are the only ones who will stop the chaos.
we are going to have to leave it there, unfortunately. winky for that report -- thank you for that report. i want to thank julie owono, general dominique trinquand, and ian van vuuren, joining us from cape town, south africa. think you for being with us here. -- thank you for being with us here. captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org--